The Man Date; What Do You Call Two Straight Men Having Dinner?
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Guiding Thought: First, whenever I do this article I usually discover that many of you associate being “intimate” with being “homosexual” or, worse, with being “feminine.” The obvious question is, then, why is this so? These are two separate concepts, so why have people—in this case, some of you—decided that one is just as good as the other? Second, in the article it states that men were not always so hesitant to “go out” with each other, and that there have been two factors involved in how men presently feel about “man dates.” Both of these boil down to insecurity with society’s opinions of “manliness.” So, here, I will ask a less obvious question: Why are men so concerned with what society thinks?
—Prof. Ferrante
“‘Men who avoid man dates altogether are often puzzled by the suggestion that they might like to spend time with male friends.’ But, the thing is, men are not going to admit that they like spending time with other males because [then] they will be labeled as ‘gay.’” —Anonymous #1
“If [men] are in a nice restaurant…they are going to think that they are on a date. I would call this ‘man date’ something that is ‘gay’ and uncalled for. Men shouldn’t have to talk about situations over dinner. Not for nothing, but I believe that this is something that women might do. …It would be embarrassing if you were to see someone in a restaurant that you know—they would think that you were gay….” —Anonymous #2
“…Most of us seem to go along with what society thinks. [In the article] Speiser and Putnam talk about how weird they felt at the museum and how they were unable to go to a restaurant. The reason for this was that they felt that the restaurant setting was too intimate, and that people would then believe that they were a couple. If you really think about it, this sounds ridiculous….” —Anonymous #3
“…We’ll see two men enjoying each other’s company, and right away [people will think] ‘they’re gay.’” Why is this? …The problem is the perception people might have when they notice the closeness. They believe straight men can’t experience companionship outside of a heterosexual relationship. …Critics should understand that people enjoy the company of people. Again, society tells us it is wrong for men to ‘date’ [other men] but at the same time, it also tells us to have an ‘open mind.’” —Anonymous #4
posted by Garth Ferrante @ 10/08/2006 09:46:00 AM
17 comments
17 Comments:
To: Professor Ferrante
Fr: Jean Turner
Why are men so concerned with what society think?
If two men are having dinner together, and it's professional - people can know from a glance. But if they are in an intimate setting, it might mean that they are gay, and to them they really don't care less what people think.
Additionally, if two men are just out having dinner and they are straight, (but the public assumed that they are gay) for some men it would'nt really matter what people are thinking, they might even find it funny (amusing). But for some men they could take it as an offense.
I conclude that one who is straight should avoid doing things in places that make them look like a gay person, if they take it as offensive.
To: Professor Ferrante
FR: Mary Garcia
When two men are seen having dinner together, people start to think other things. What I mean by other things is some people will label these men as being gay. Then there's the people that might just think their just friends having dinner. For these reasons men are sometimes hesitant to go somewhere with a male friend. Men don't like to be labeled, especially as something their not.
To: Professor Ferrante
From : Vienna Mouzon
Men will always try to live up to the "mucho man" stereo type. Society has made a niche for man and that niche demands for them to be masculine at all times. If they were to be seen in public at a two seated table sitting across from each other eating this would be out of place. The only time two men would be allowed to have dinner together is if its formal. I personally work in the resturant bussiness and I recall only seeing one group of two men walk in dressed in casual colthes and sit at a table for two. I remember a co worker of mine as was these two men gay.I honestly had no response to the question , I didnt know what to say.
To. Jean Turner
From: Vienna Mouzon
I agree with the professor the reason why so many men are concerened with what society, is because of a lack of self confidence. Many people fear that if they think outside of the box society will view them in a negative way. Everyone is trying to live up to certain standards but the road you take to reach them should be your own. Man should act like a man but his own personal defintion for a man not the one society set for him. If going to dinner with one other guy is uncomfortable for a man he needs to ask himself why? If he feels uncomfortable because he is concern with what society thinks than he needs to learn how to live for himself and not society.
To: Jean Turner
From: Vienna Mouzon
I disagree with your statement that states men should avoid doing things in public that may make them look gay. I don't think there is a way gay man act verses the way a straight man acts. I think there is a way majority of straight men act vs there is a way majority of gay man act. Some straight men care themselves very neat and flashy this does not make him gay. Also some gey people do not dress very neat they may look like a homeless person with ripped colthes on but they still can be homosexual.There should not be a way a gay or a straight man should act they should just be themelves.
Reply to Mary Garcia,
You are right with regards to your comment to Prof. Ferrante. "Some people will label them as being gay. Then there is the people that might just think their just friends having dinner." But regrdless of what the the meeting/date is about, if they are out to dinner, the focus should be on each other whether it talking business or being intimate and what "people" are thinking should'nt matter. We can't please everyone.
Response to Mr.Ferrante
I do agree that a lot of men are puzled and confused about spending time with male friends,they like to be so careful and avoid to be seen by an anyone they know might think of them as gay. Those men care too much about rumors and gossip that it limits their freedom of choice and happiness. I think men shouldn't worry about what's sais about them if they know they're not doing anything wrong or illegal, so let people talk and gossip, that's what they're best at.
Loreen Hanna
To Jean Turner
From Loreen Hanna
I disagree with your opinion that men should avoid being in public places if it makes them look gay, i don't think it's fair at all, why is it okay for women to hang out with their friends and not for men.Men are human beings who deserve to live and enjoy lives by going out with male and female friends, why should they limit themselves to only hanging out with women just so they won't be called gay, it's bad enough that they're manliness is always stereotyped. why can't men do anything they are comfortable doing without being judged.
Response to Vienna
From Loreen Hanna
I definetely agree with what you said about that a man has to learn to live for himself and not for society but do you really think that's possible, i mean how hard do you think it will be to live in a society and not caring what they say and think, we as girls can't know how they really feel about being misjudged and stereotyped all the time. I'm sure it's really hard, they always lived up to certain standards and they will always do because if they don't then they will be labeled as gay and it will wreck their lives. I always thought it was just women that had it bad and men didn't have to worry about anything, but it's the exact opposite.
I the author expressed herself worng when she quoted the article a man date. It should of been name a man apponitment. Guys always hang out together that does not mean they are going out on a date. They eat together shop together but this does not make them gay. Maybe if the author had rephrase the article a little bit different then we could of probably agreed with the author but the word date makes it seem liek it is a sexual environment when it is nothing but pure friendship.
Manny A. Sanchez
Response to Hana who respnded to Jean
i agree with what loreen responded to jean. In my opinion there is nothing with two men having a dinner for two. I also think that men do not have to limit themselves to only hanging out with women. Sometimes you need that tiem to hang out with your male buddies to catch up with your friendship relationship. Is their really something gay about that?
Manny a. Sanchez
Respnse to Loreen Responding to Vienna
I think that men should not live trying to satisfy society. Imagine, their is so many stereotypes in the world if we really had da time to sit down and think about what people say about us, we wouyld never move on. What is your business should stay your business. Men shouldnt worry about what society thinks of them.
Last above was mine manny a sanchez
Response to: Prof. G. Farante
From: P. Sellers-Bradford
The last thing that a straight guy will do is question his own sexuality. I disagree that a majority of men exemplify uneasiness about their having same sex dates. As boys they talked and play together regularly prior to having relationships with females. Therefore, when they become older they find it difficult to break away from the mold of male only activities to incorporate women into their lifestyle. It becomes increasingly hard for them to balance their relationships, especially if the girl demands extensive time. Does jealousy play a role in the female’s behavior when confronted with this scenario?
In fact, women and men on most occasions resent being left out. They generally make negative comments to their partners or about others stating, “Are you gay”. Relationships often fail because of this behavior. People do observe two people enjoying each other’s company and blatantly decide that they are gay. Is it okay to attack someone’s sexuality because you cannot understand their feelings about hanging out with their friends or acquaintances?
Generally some people will resort to name calling and negative comments about others because they lack self-confidence about theirs or another’s relationship. Professionals and businessmen regularly dine, drink wine and communicate at restaurants, museums and libraries. This is an acceptable way of life for them so we do not have the right to judge that their gathering is based on same sex relations.
To: Jean Turner
From: P. Sellers-Bradford
I agree with your comments for the most part, especially about the men not caring what people think. However, I do not agree that men must become selective of what setting they choose just to satisfy other people's minds that they are straight. I can see them not frequencing a well-known gay bar. But, they should not have to be careful about a restaurant when they are clearly there to dine.
To: Manny
FROM: P. Sellers-Bradford
I agree with Manny that men shop and eat together and it is okay. They also go to ball games and the movies as children. But, they somewhat stray away from what was natural for them at some point in time just because they become fearful about what people think.
If a man truly enjoys the company of another male, then he should continue to do so no matter what people think. It is difficult enough to fact all of the things that we must make decisions on in life. People should not let go of the joy of their friendship over the dinner table. It still will not stop the whispers.
I believe that pride is what keeps men from going on more man dates. We feel that if people look at us they will think that e are involved intimately. We are afraid of being sen as homosexuals so that is why we are concerned with madates
Jean Mombrun
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